What Causes Electrolysis On A Boat?

Lee Wiles asked a topic that came up recently was electrolysis, sometimes seen on lower units

perhaps on one of your podcasts you could discuss why this happens and how to prevent it

Thanks. Lee Richmond from Virginia. So, yeah, there's a couple of different things when it comes to electrolysis or corrosion or galvanic corrosion

There's basically three main types. So electrolysis is basically what everybody calls it

everybody calls pretty much all corrosion electrolysis, even though it's not technically electrolysis

Electrolysis, I would say, is more of an electrolytic corrosion being like stray current

or directly related with electricity. But the other types of corrosion that you're going to see, we'll start with the first one

which is the most simple one. It's basically just a simple electrochemical corrosion, which is just the degradation of metal

So like metal is basically taken from the earth with different minerals

It's made together and it is a man-made thing. It's a, you know, forged piece of metal

And so the metal is always trying to break down to its, you know, most basic form

That's why all of it russes and all of it, you know, falls apart over time

It's kind of why everything, you know, people have a, was such an issue with outboards and calling them trash and junk and crap and all this other

stuff, which I actually was surprised. I'm going to do this in a podcast. How many comments we've

seen about how people complain about how bad outboards are. So we'll go ahead and do that later

But for this one, that is the problem is it's metal. And metal breaks down and it's just kind of what it is

So simple electrochemical, you know, corrosion is just that. It is the metal trying to break down

It's actually pretty easy to stop this because most of the time in order to stop it is just, you know, paint, clear coat, and protecting it, the metal

So if you keep the metal lubed, like oil, grease, stuff like that, and then also, like on lower units where you're seeing it is where there's a chip in the paint or a scratch or something like that

So now that bare metal is, you know, touching the outside air

and it's the outside air that creates this oxidization, and that oxidization is what then excels the degradation of the metal

or the depleting or the rusting or whatever you want to call it. That's kind of the issue

The next most common type is galvanic corrosion, and galvanic corrosion is separate in the fact that galvanic is basically

when you have two dissimilar metals. so if you have stainless steel and aluminum being a stainless steel bolt holding on an aluminum lower unit to your engine

that is a dissimilar metal. And, you know, when you put those bolts in, it scratches the paint

So now you've got aluminum and stainless steel touching together. And then you take that and you stick it into an electrolytic, I guess that would, I guess that would be the right word

An electrolyte? No, it'd be like an electrolyte or an electrolytic type of substance being water

that is conducive, those two metals together are going to create a chemical reaction

which is galvanic corrosion. And that one, in order to combat that, what you need is anodes

So the proper protection based on your anodes is what's going to help to neutralize

that as much as possible. A lot of these things, there's not much you can do because you are taking

metal, you're running electricity through it, and then you're putting it into a body of water

and then you're running it. So there's only so much that we can do to slow down these processes

but those are the two main types being the simple electrochemical, which is, again, metal breaking

down. That is just lubrication, wax, paint, keeping it clean. And then galvanic, which is

dissimilar metals touching, and that is in order to combat, that is their proper

and just making sure that everything is as good as it can be as far as paint

same thing, paint, lubrication, grease, stuff like that. Talking about like stainless steel, like stainless, a lot of people think it's stainless

It's not, you know, stain perfect. It's going to rust. And especially like 316 or 304, what is mainly used in the marine industry because it's

not pure stainless steel. It has other metal built into it, which is what gives it its strength

If it was just pure stainless, then it would not have the same strength as it does with the other metals built into it

So that's kind of another issue. All back to the simple electrochemical corrosion issue

Now, the last one is what everybody calls electrolysis, which is really it's an electrochemical

electrolytic corrosion is what it's called. So an electrolytic corrosion is where you have straight current or you have an electrical component

it being added to the problem. I'm going to say electrolysis because that's what everybody understands it as and that's

what everybody says regardless of it really being electrolytic. So if you've got stray current, whereas you've got like in a boat, so in a boat you've got

you know, batteries and DC current and then that power from each battery, say you've got twins

the power from this battery goes to this engine. The power from this battery goes to this engine

and that power is always going to be trying to get back to the battery

And power flows from ground to positive. So what a lot of people, you know, misunderstand, you know

you think that the power goes from positive to negative, but it doesn't

It flows backwards. And so if you've got a problem with your ground circuit

your power circuit, or anything like that, and let's say that your batteries are tied together or they're not tied together

Both can cause a different problem. But the power that goes to this engine, if it can't get back to the battery

then it's going to find a way to get back to the battery. So the power is running through the entire engine

Your entire engine block to the lower unit, to the propeller, to everything, is all metal on metal contact, and the electricity is running through that metal

because it's using the metal as the ground, like as a ground block

So that power is going to find a way to get back to that battery

it will actually leave the metal of the engine and flow through the water to the other engine

if it needs to to get back to the battery. And it will do that through other ways too

Like most boats have a bonding circuit built into them, and the bonding circuit is a different type of grounding circuit that connects all the metal components

that are going to the water. So like your through halls, your drains, brackets, engine bolts, like all that different stuff is going to have a bonding wire on it

So that way if you do have stray current and you do have a problem with that, then that bonding circuit is going to connect all these items together to help spread that load

So it doesn't just attack one item and cause a big problem

but if the power can't get from this engine back to the battery

then it's going to find a way, whether that be through one of the through-hole fittings

or through the other engine or whatever. And one of the problems with this is you can actually make an electrode it can make a difference where it will take particles from this metal and go over to here and the particles from this metal will get left on the

other metal. That's why you'll see different discolourations in the metal. You'll see different

kind of like coatings, I guess you would say, like you can have a brown coating, you could have a

black coating, you could have a rainbow looking coating based on. the different problem that you have of the stray current

whether that be from AC or a boat problem or, you know

another boat next to you has a problem, like whatever the problem may be

every different scenario could have a different outcome based on your specific problem

And that coding is actually particles or electrons or, yeah, let's call it particles from the other metal

So like we did it on a video about props in this kind of similar issue

And if you take a battery and you take a penny and a quarter

and you put the penny to the ground on the battery and you take the quarter and you put it to the positive

if you put them in water, it will actually connect that circuit and take the copper coating off of the penny

and put it on to the quarter. And the quarter will then turn to that same bronze copper color

that was on the penny. That's the medical, the metal from the penny being left on it. It's a coating. It's an electro, you know, it's an

electro, I'm not sure what the exact term would be. It's an electrical coating. So that's kind of

what's going on there. And in order to combat that or to fix that or to alleviate that, you need to

make sure that the bonding circuit in the boat is right. And you're not using the bonding circuit

as a ground, which some people will because the biggest problem or the most common one is the fuel

sender and people using the same ground for the fuel sender as they do for the bonding circuit

And they'll just, you know, opposed to having a ground running to the fuel center, they'll run it straight to the bonding and use the bonding as the ground

which those two circuits should be separated and only attached at the battery

So making sure that those two are separated and then all, also making sure there's no stray current and making sure that your anodes on the engines are all in good condition

Anodes get overlooked a lot of times because people don't really think about it

or maybe they don't understand exactly what those anodes are doing, and those anodes are helping to combat this corrosion issue of galvanic and simple electrochemical and electrolytic corrosion

So those anodes are very important, and there's the right amount of anodes on the engine

There's a reason why there's, you know, two on the lower unit, one on the anti-ventilation plate

one on the bracket, two or three on the bracket of the power tilt and trim unit

There's that many for a reason because they're a specific size and they're a specific weight

And they're like, it is chemically manufactured in a way that it balances out the water

and it balances out the kind of, I can't think of the word what it would be

but it balances everything out. So for the amount of metal being the lower unit and the trim unit and all that stuff that's in the water

those anodes balance out that ratio. So the, you know, it's basically neutral

And so make sure those anodes are right. Make sure there's no paint missing on the lower unit

That's going to be the best way for you to combat any kind of corrosion issue that you could see

Now, I'm sure there's someone out there that is a doctor and knows a lot more about it than me

not a chemical engineer. That is just the best way that I understand it and the best way that I can hopefully

try and help someone else understand it in terms that you could understand and kind of get

your mind wrapped around the way that whole corrosion and electrolysis issue works

Robbie Howe, part of the problem is marketing where you're made to feel like these boats

even modest-sized boats, have to be going 50 miles per hour at wide open throttle

Just a few decades ago, nobody would have even thought of a 600 horsepower outboard

25-foot boats were being pushed with 200 horsepower outboards, and nobody had two engines on a boat

a 20-foot boat with a 150 horsepower was a lot of boat

We're wanting too much these days. That's talking about running full throttle and reliable versus unreliable

and just what the market looks like as far as what people want

And yeah, I think that a lot of us have become spoiled in the ability to do 60, 65, 70, 75 miles an hour on the water

I mean, like, that's, that is insane. Though I get it, I mean, who doesn't want to go faster

But granted, yeah, most of us grew up doing 30, 35, 40

And like, that is, that is plenty. Yeah, now you've got 600, 450, 500 horsepower outboards

And everybody wants to do 65. So it's like the boat brands are now thinking that 50, 60 is like you have to have that

otherwise your boat's not going to sell. And I don't really know if that's honestly the case

I think that the available horsepower and the reliability of the engines that are available

is helping to change that where, okay, yeah, there's not much of a difference between like my 21-foot boat with a V6200 on it

is going to do 55 miles an hour just based on the efficiency, the power

the torque ratios, the propeller pitches that were able to spin with the engines

I think that that is kind of more of like the baseline now

So companies are because of the technology able to have boats that do 50, 55 as like a standard rate

But I'm also not a big fan of being underpowered either. I mean, if you want to have like, it's a lot better to have power and not need it than to need power and not have it

Especially when a lot of people, the way they use a boat is you load it up

I mean, the things that people take on boats. boats now are just insane

Like, you know, the days of just having two people, one little cooler, and four rods on the boat

like that's not how people use boats anymore. Now people want to have eight people on the boat with six different coolers

Both of the fish boxes packed out with ice, 12, 15 different rods, all your baits

all your, all your tackle, everything, like staying on the boat. So there is a lot more weight on the boat

And so now you kind of need that extra horsepower. opposed to being able to get away with, you know, having a 90 horse or a 115 on a 20 foot, 21 foot boat

Because of how packed it is, you know, now you're only doing 25

You've actually got functional problems with the boat when it's underpowered where the boat's not getting on plane

If you can't even get the boat on plane, that's a functionality problem, not necessarily just a desire problem

but yeah, I think, I still think 3540 is fine. For the most part, for most of us to get somewhere

if you can do 30, 35 miles an hour, I mean, like, that's, that's pretty good

Like, I mean, if you're in that much of a hurry and you need that much time

then like, that's a whole other deal. So Jim's asks any thoughts on Parsons two cycles

I have an older boat that I would like to remoder. Boat came with a Johnson 85 horsepower

I understand a four cycle will be too heavy. unless I drop horsepower. Yeah, that's kind of the issue with two stroke to four stroke

and the conversion there is the weight to horsepower ratio is still a problem

When you get down to these 85 you know anywhere from 40 to 115 that kind of that range of like you know going from a two three cylinder to a four cylinder

And, you know, it's a, it's a hundred, 150, 200 pounds in some instances, which is a lot

which is a big difference when you're talking about repowering a boat. I don't know much about Parsons

I think it's a Chinese brand. I'm not 100% sure. I didn't really know that you could even buy it

two-stroke in the United States anymore, but I guess you can. So that's kind of news to me

I do know, I have seen Parson they make an electric outboard

so I've only seen that cycle. I didn't realize they made four-strokes and two-strokes

So no, I don't really have any experience or any kind of detailed information

that I can give other than opinion and what I read. So I don't know too much about them

but yeah, I would definitely, going back to being underpowered, discussion, I would not want to drop horsepower just to go to the four stroke

So yeah, one of your, one of your problems there is the weight of that 85 is that 85 is a four cylinder

And so you've got a lot of power with that 85. And if you go to like a 60 or a 75 and you go down to like a three cylinder, you're going to

lose a lot of, um, the way, you know, functionality to that boat

you're going to lose a lot of performance, just simply going from the four-cylinder two-stroke to, say, a three-cylinder four-stroke

I feel for you. That's kind of a problem. So I don't know

I would definitely be looking into different options. The PARSUN 2 cycles don't know anything about them

I mean, if you can get it, then your weight to horsepower ratio is probably going to be very similar

Two-strokes, it's a two-stroke engine. so there can't be too much about it

I mean, two-stroke technology is, you know, I hope they don't screw that up as far as if it's just a plain-jane two-cycle engine

That might be your best bet. I don't know what their price is either

so maybe even the price might even go into there. J.D. says just go to a state that has winters

and buy a good running boat for cheap during the winter. We just talked about this on a couple podcasts ago

being of a good place to find a cheap boat. 100%. I mean, if you can look like we were talking about being on Craigslist or Facebook

but yeah, if you can find something in a winter state, like if you go up north and you look for

a deal during the winter, a lot of times there are people that have a boat that, you know

is put away for stores for the winter and they don't really use it that much and they need to sell

the boat. It's a hard time to sell a boat in the middle of January when you live in Minnesota

or you live in, you know, Ohio or New York or, you know

any of these other northern places, Illinois, Indiana, any of that stuff. If you live in Michigan and you're trying to sell a boat in the middle of January

you've got limited buyers because it's snowing outside, it's freezing cold. People aren't buying boats

So 100%, you might be able to find a really good deal

if you go to one of these locations to try and find a boat

because there's no other buyers of anyone else is buying boats. So, you know, you're the only

buyer then and they have to sell the boat it's the same old saying is that something is only worth

as much as you can get someone to pay for it when you need to sell it so if you need to sell the boat

in the middle of january in the middle of winter and there's no one else buying it um that kind of

uh is an issue and unfortunate for the seller but for you as a buyer that's where you find a deal

that's where you can make a come up and that is a very good comment captain dave sport fishing i can tell

you for a fact, I used the flush port on a 250 Suzuki for four years and my fuel cooler

clogged up. It never got flushed by using the flush port. I couldn't figure out what was wrong

and a Yamaha Merck mechanic told me to check the fuel cooler and he was right. It was full of dirt

mud, salt from the St. John's River, Jacksonville. I have many videos about the issue on my own

channel, boat maintenance playlist. I would never ever advise anybody to use those flushing ports

I mean, we're going to differ on that one because I definitely do suggest the flushing ports

but 100% running the St. Johns, that is brackish, dirty water. I mean, like you're running in all kinds of issues with dirt, mud, and all kinds of other things

Yeah, that sucks that it's clogged up the fuel cooler. And for whatever reason, that flesh port was not flushing that fuel cooler

I know I have seen him. He likes to put it in a tub and run it in the in the

the in the can, which is, I mean, if you want the best way and the most efficient way to

flush your outboard, then that's the way it's going to be. You're going to put it into a can full of water and even probably throwing some flush

or some salt away in there as well. And that's going to be the most proficient way that you can flush and outboard

So definitely if you want to learn how to do that, you can check out his channel. You know, I'm still a fan of the flush port, though

So we do differ on that aspect. But nonetheless, it did have a problem for him and a Suzuki

where the flush part was not flushing the fuel cooler, so that's an issue

Dr. Ed, you need to talk more about inboards. All my friends here in Florida use them more than outboards

because we have larger and faster boats. Inboard flushing needs caution, especially with closed systems

shaft seals and seawater pumps. 100%. I don't do a lot with inboards

My inboard experience is limited. I just don't have the boats to work on

A lot of our stuff is offshore and people are wanting outboards. it's they want the ease of maintenance

but an inboard does have completely different flushing aspects to it than

an outboard whereas a lot of inboards a lot of them do have flush ports built in though

with newer boats the way they are even if you do have inboards a lot of them do have a way where there's a flush attachment

there but most of them you have to run the engine when you are flushing them hooked up to it

to get that sea pump that water pump the closed circuit like all the other things flushed out of it

but you definitely have to use muffs and make sure that it is flushed in a specific way

depending on the inboard that you have. It is much different from an outboard

especially in northern climates whenever you're dealing with freezing temperatures. Like an outboard, it's so much easier

You just tilt it down and all the water leaks out. You don't have to worry about things freezing

And inboard, when you flush it, you have to drain everything because it could freeze, crack your block, be a problem

So, yeah, we'd love to bring more inboard. content. We just don't see a lot of them

I would like to do at Wakeboard or a ski boat here in the upcoming future. Maybe this year we'll get on to that

So that would be some inboard content. But as of right now, nothing's on the books for any inboard

Sorry about that. Rich, great discussion. Yamaha F-15, right up there with F-150 reliability, 100%

Both of those platforms. The F-15, the F-150 are, I mean, that is like

like the pinnacle of reliability. Yamaha's F-150 is probably the most reliable engine that's they've

ever made. Super fan. You're right with the F-15. Same thing. It's very similar. It is super reliable

super robust, super rigid, like it'll take abuse. Phenomenal engine, phenomenal platform. You are

100% right. I'm a big fan of the F-15, big fan of the 150. You know, Yamaha is synonymous with reliability

That's probably something that I do need to make a video on. Probably incorporate that

how most brands have something that they're known for. They become synonymous with with their name And Yamaha is reliable If you say Yamaha outboard most people are going to say reliable john coleman what is your opinion on the first run of seapro boats got a 2005 27 270 cc for a great

deal never heard them mentioned on the good or bad from any of your podcast yeah we don't really

talk much about a lot of the budget boats i think we had a discussion about that earlier i do need to

maybe make a little segment about that with some of these budget production line boats

Just because they are a production line boat that's kind of like, we just don't talk about them much

But they do have their point. I don't think there's anything wrong with the C-Pro. Same thing

It's a good riding boat. There's not much to it. It's got a fair price on it

The engine package that you can get with them, that's more of my concern with most boats is what's the engine on it

and what's the power ratio based on the weight of the boat. and then the rest of it you can deck out however you want between the electronics and the

stereo and the lights and all that stuff that's all on you what you want as far as the right of the

boat the those early 2000 see pros not a bad boat not a not a bad riding boat they're just

you know it's just a it's just a regular boat you're going to be running 30s 40s and um

it's set up for for fishing so i think it's a good boat i don't have anything bad to say about it

So, you know, that's probably why we don't really talk about that much about it because it's just kind of like, yeah, that's a good boat

You know, boom, that's, that's it. There's not like, oh, my gosh, it's got, it's, it's so good because of X, Y, and Z

It's, it's just a good boat. So if you're in that budget, budget range, then not a bad boat at all

Hot shots, again, what is your take on the angler boats, particularly 2,000's year range, 2,400 C, 2,500 C, no wood construction

I'm going to put the angler right back. in there with the C-Pro, that's the same thing. It's, you know, along that, that budget line, plain Jane, good riding boat

but nothing that's like, you know, super spectacular. There's no, like, wow factor

Oh, this is an amazing boat. It's just a, you know, it's going to get you into boating

It's going to get you on the water. It's going to get you fishing. It's a good boat. There's not a whole large discussion that could be had there

So I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I think it's a good boat

would be, I think that you got a good boat. That's, that's kind of my opinion, not much there

Fireboat. Newer used outboards are the way to go. Last year, I bought a pair of well-cared-for 2012

a Yamaha HPDI 200s with 600 hours on them for 10,000 with like new props

rigging and gauges. The HPI 200 has been one of Yamaha's most reliable engines

A pair of new 200s would be 40 to 50,000, a huge difference

don't know if I would call them the most reliable, but like I said

for me, the F150 is the most reliable engine that they ever made

even though the 4-2 and these larger ones, super reliable. Not to say that the 3-3, the 225, 250, any of those were unreliable

They are reliable. I'm just saying, you know, I think the F-150 was the best

Nothing wrong with the others, but 200 huge fan of the 200-hpdi

100% I'm with you on there. We just had someone else that had a major catastrophic problem with his

HPDI, but I think he had the 225 or 250 somewhere. He had the large one, not the 15200, which was the smaller one

which the 150, 200 was way more reliable than the 25300 was

In the same note, they were super fuel efficient, and not to mention the performance aspect that you're going to get out of that 200

HPDI compared to the performance out of the new F200 because the F200 is an in line four

So your six cylinder HPDI, you're going to get, I mean, for one, it's got two strokes

You got more power and it's a six cylinder and it's got the same horsepower

So, yeah, I think that's a steal 100%. I would definitely take a pair of that, especially 2012

That one's not too old yet. I mean, yeah, you're 12 years old, but you're not

20 years old. So you've got a lot of life left in those engines

I would definitely try and run those things until you can't run them no more

Super fuel efficient. Definitely maintain them and keep quality fuel in them

That was kind of the detriment to most HPDIs. I would definitely be watching running stuff like ethanol or any kind of other poor fuel in there

because they do like to inherently run lean. But that's not to say that they're unreliable or that you're going to have a problem

I would just say keep good fuel, run them as often as you can

and make sure they're oiling properly, and you're going to run those things for a long time

One of my favorite engines, definitely all about that. Zique, full open is expensive

You can use your tachometer for a fuel gauge, 100%. That's the perfect one to end on right there

Yeah, the faster you go, the more fuel you're going to burn

and 100%, you could use. your tachometer as a fuel gauge. So if you're doing wide open throttle, 6,000 RPM

you're going to be burning way more fuel. And once you learn your boat in your engine

you should be able to run that off of the tack. I only run boats on the tack

I don't look. I rarely, I mean, yeah, I'll look at the speed. I'm more monitor my RPM

So when I run a boat, you learn the boat as the boat is

and you know with what trim you're running, your RPM and your fuel economy and the speed

So once you kind of dial those three in and you learn your boat

you kind of know where you're at as far as the trim, the seas, and how the boat runs

And I mainly look at the tachometer. I don't really look so much at the speed anymore as I do listening to the engine

looking at the fuel economy, and looking at the trim of the engines, you know, what we're trimmed up and what we're running and what we're consuming

And that's kind of how I run a boat. I don't necessarily look at the speed and say

oh, I want to do 45 miles an hour no matter what. For me, it's more of what are the sea conditions

And if you're running into the wind, or you're running into the current, or you're running upstream

learning the trim, learning the fuel burn, and learning the RPM of your engine

is going to allow you to actually make the engine run a lot longer

if you learn how it likes to run. Most engine, I try and run in the first

4,000 RPM range, anywhere from 35 to 47 maybe. That's like I would say is most engines cruising speed, maybe 38 to 48 somewhere in there

around the 4,000, 4,500. That's most engine boat package cruising speed. When you're underpowered and you've got a lot of weight in the boat, then cruising

speeds end up being in the 5,000, 5500 RPM range. But by and large, I would

say that you want to be, you know, learn your boat is what I guess what I would try and say

is to learn your boat, learn what the tack is, learn what the RPM is, learn what your fuel burn

is, learn how to trim it based on the engine height. Hopefully your engines are mounted at the

right height, then you can get some trim in there to get some lift on the back of the boat

to get more of the boat out of the water and get on top of the water. And that's going to give you

the best experience, the best fuel economy, and make your engines last the longest. So for

this week. We'll go ahead and shut down. If you want to talk about something, drop in the comments below. Email us at AskBab at Bornagainboating.com. Check out our boaters program and help support us

at bornagainboody.com. And we will see you next week