Are Electric Outboards A Problem?

Maverick says, love the videos for good info and keeping up with the industry

Thank you, Maverick. What are your thoughts on electric outboards like the Vision Marine and Elko

Well, I mean, I don't really see electric outboards as being a problem

I think that they're going to be a big part of the future. Obviously, there are some kinks that need to be worked out of the whole system with the range, the batteries, the price, all that kind of stuff

But they're going to be more and more prominent. Elko and Vision Marine are probably the most prominent right now

Vision Marine definitely is one of the most popular and the most abundant outboard out there

as far as an electric outboard. I think that they have the capacity to make like 10,000 engines a year now

or something like that. I know that they bought some company that allowed them to produce a massive amount

or maybe it was 10,000 battery cells. They bought a battery company or a manufacturing company

or a plant or something like that and allow them to make 10,000 batteries a year

I think that's what it is, 10,000 cells. But definitely one of the most popular, one of the most known

They made that catamaran, the speedboat that broke 100. I forget what the actual speed was

I know it broke 100 with twins on it. And then Elko

Elko, I don't know that much about. Elko is definitely, I think they only make like a 50 horse

they don't go above a 50 horse, but they're still a very prominent brand

I don't have, I've not heard anything bad about them. I think there is going to be a massive future for electric outboards

I know that, like, you've got Evoi that makes a 300, and I want to say a 150

And so you've got basically two big brands that make a larger horsepower outboard

being a 300, which is the Evo, Evo and the photon P300

So the Evo is basically a Verado Caling and lower unit with a electric engine inside of it that makes 300 horsepower

And then the photon, I want to say, is made out of an E-Tech shell

Not 100% on that one. I know they make like a 120 and a 150 as well

then it all kind of comes back down to the price and the battery systems

We just got done talking a lot about lithium and the power

the complications, stuff like that. If you are in the boaters program

we do a weekly live stream, and we were just talking about this the other day

You could either become a program member or a channel member, and we do a weekly live stream

but we are actually talking about the Volvo Penta. So just kind of like a recap of what we were talking about

There is a thing called the CES. So every year in the beginning of the year

there's a consumer electronic show. And in 2023, Volvo Penta came out with this huge future of boating vision

this whole thing about having this island and charging centers and a membership program where you could become a member

get on a boat, like rented, I guess, kind of like Freedom Boat Club, and then take the boat

out. The boat is autonomous. It teaches you how to drive it. It docks itself. They have charging

pods that come out to the boat and charge it while you're at the sandbar or whatever overnight

Like this whole big thing, which was pretty cool because it kind of like gives you an idea of

where they want to go. I know that we've heard that before. I talked with someone at a at flibs one year

Not sure the year, maybe 2020, 2021 when I talked to him. And Volvo Pinta took this

like change and that they see basically electric being the future i mean they kind of don't really

put much outside of doing diesel inboards hybrids and electric and i think that they're going to do

the hybrids to take over the diesel most of their boat like well not most of their boats but a lot

of their engines that they're putting out are these hybrid systems and these electric style

type of engines that they are trying to get to and i think

that they want to make their main line that and that is why in 2021 i think it was 2021 so they

bought seven marine outboards and then it wasn't but a year or two after they bought it that they

completely killed it so you know they they put all this money into this brand to acquire this company

and then they just completely shut it down and the reason they shut it down is because they see

the future being this they want to push more towards this electrification of

boats, I guess you would call it, even though they're still, you know, heavily invested into

hybrids and stuff like that that will run off of other fuel systems outside of, you know

gasoline and diesel. So where do I see, you know, outboards going as far as electric? I think

you're going to see a lot more of them. I think the technology is going to get a lot better. Obviously, there's some problems with the lithium. We just did a video on the main channel about

lithium and a lot of people still don't really see lithium for what it really can be

all the benefits that it does have. Yes, there's obviously some issues with it like what we just

saw earlier a few weeks ago. By the time this video comes out, there was a massive cold snap in the

north of the United States and there were all these people that had Teslas and electric cars

that were all stranded because of how cold it got, they were basically dead in the water

The cars would not run. The batteries would not charge. Nothing would work. At the same time, I want to say that, you know

you can't really say all that much about that because when it gets to negative 50

negative 60, like these massively low temperatures, lead acid has its problems anyway

Like any battery is going to have a problem whenever you get that cold

So, you know, I mean, I guess it's a talk. point, not necessarily something that I would say is a problem, because especially when you're

talking about boating. In boating, you're not boating in negative 40 degrees. If you are, that's a choice

So I don't know, you know, if that would really relate, but that is kind of where you see some of the

problems. And then obviously talking about, you know, the explosive factors of it, even though

lithium phosphate doesn't have the same problems as a nickel magnet. manganese cobalt so nmc's nmc's if they are damaged those are the ones that will explode but the

problem is that lfp lithium iron phosphate which is the main type of battery in the boating world because

they don't have thermal runaway as easy when they're damaged so you could you know stab the battery

and i want to say 99 times out of 100 it's not going to catch on fire even though there are some

experiences again, depending on the BMS and the, you know, quality of the battery

Obviously, when you make something super cheap and you just pack it together and people

are trying to make money, they can cheap out on certain steps and make things dangerous

that they shouldn't be. But, you know, that's a whole other topic all of its own

When you're talking about LFP, a good brand and a good product, it doesn't have that issue

but you don't have the capacity and the range that you get with the nickel manganese cobalt

They are more dangerous, but you get more range and you get more capacity out of the battery than you do with the LFP

There are, you know, obviously new technologies coming out all the time and they will eventually figure something out to make it, you know, the ultimate product

Like solid state, so opposed to using certain types of electrolytes, use a solid state inside the battery and that shows a lot of promises

Obviously, I think the main problem with the solid state is that the cycle count is lower

So how many times you can drain the battery and recharge it, the cycle life is a lot lower than

you know an electrolyte substance And then the graphite they using graphite and then sodium So sodium is a salt and opposed to using lithium they use sodium and solid state and

graphite and all these other, you know, they're making different chemical compounds to get the best

out of each different one to make it cheaper, last longer, and have more range

So if you've got batteries that will last you 15, 20 years that don't explode and have less

weight than carrying 600 gallons of fuel, then, you know, the benefits are there

Obviously charging them, you know, that could be its own problem, its own discussion of

you know, if you burn 600 gallons of fuel on your trips or wherever you're going

how much electricity are you going to use whenever you charge your boat

So is your electric bill go up a thousand bucks a month to keep your boat charged

Or, you know, that whole mathematic side of things, I don't really know

You'd have to kind of figure that out. We'll figure that out as time goes on

But as far as, like, them being safe and being useful and being, like, the future of boating

I definitely see the potential, and I'm all about it. I think, you know, the batteries, again, if they can figure out sodium because there's so

much more abundant than lithium, that'll be great if they figure out the solid state to make

them have the cycle lives. You know, if you can get 20,000 cycles out of a battery, that battery is going to outlast the boat

and if you can get, you know, the graphite and all these other things to get different ranges

so where you can have a boat that can do 600 miles or whatever it may be

to be equivalent to using, you know, fuel, then 100%. There's no disadvantage there because if it doesn't explode when you damage it

then the safety's there. And if you can get the range, then great. That's kind of the biggest problem that I think people are seeing with electric

on cars, but obviously when they figure it out with a car

they're going to figure out with a boat too. So it's just a matter of time

And when they figure that out, if you get, like, let's say you get into an electric car

it says that you have 400 miles until you're empty. That's all fine and dandy when you're doing 65, 70 miles an hour

But that's not really the true range because you get in this car and you're doing

90, 95, 100, you're not going to get 400 miles range out of it

you're going to get, you know, 250 or whatever, you know, whatever it may be

I don't know the exact number. That's an exaggeration, but you get the point

The point is that you think you have this distance, but depending on how much you're using it

In boats, we're going, you know, wide open throttle as much as possible

We're using a lot of capacity, a lot of power really quickly

So where does that really put it at? I'm not, you know, sure. But I think it's interesting and I love to see it

We're going to see a lot more of it, I think. and I think that the reliability might be there

I haven't really looked into the weight factors of everything. So I never really put together

So we've got this 300 horsepower Evo. I don't know how much that weighs compared to a 300 horsepower V8 engine

So, you know, that might play into effect on the size of it, the weight

I've got to imagine it's definitely lighter, but I'm not 100%. So if you've got the same distances of the boat with the amount of batteries that you need and the weight of the engine

how much different is that compared to a completely full fuel tank and the weight of the combustion engine

That's kind of my thoughts. And again, I don't really see them being a problem

I think there is going to be a big future in there. and I think that the power is going to be really interesting

because electric power is so much more instantaneous than gasoline, I think that it's going to be pretty cool, honestly

So, like, you know, you get an electric car when you hit the pedal, like it's instant power

It, you know, off the line, the zero to 60, the zero to 90

all of those records, the zero to 200 and back to zero

every record for acceleration is basically, you know, owned by an electric vehicle

I think the Bugatti Volkswagen maybe it is. I'm not sure exactly what car it is, but there is a car that, you know

the zero to 60, the zero to 90, zero to 100, all those numbers, I mean, it smokes everything on how instantaneous and how quick it is

So I think that is a definitely cool aspect to electric that, you know

relating to boats, especially people like bass fishermen and stuff like that

that want all this power, all this speed really quick. If they can pop their boats up on plane and be like gone in a second

you know, if you can go from zero to 30 miles an hour on plane in a boat in, say

three seconds, four seconds, that's going to be insane. So definitely cool

I can't wait to see more of where it goes and what happens. James Richard, what is your opinion on using lithium starting batteries with Yamaha outboards

So another question about lithium, we're just talking about it. And Yamaha, so it's going to depend on the battery and your engine, your situation

So Yamaha does not warranty, like, they do not want you using lithium with their outboards

As of now, I'm sure that's going to change. Everything's going up. The biggest problem that they have, like Yamaha and most brands have

is that cheaper starting lithium batteries will have an issue with disconnecting

and also an issue with charging. So based on the BMS, if you've got a cheap lithium battery with a cheap BMS

it will actually disconnect itself from the engine. And when you're running an engine and it disconnects

all kinds of problems can happen. I mean, you're talking about a computer on an engine

and you're just taking away the power like that. You can fry the computer. You can do damage to other electrical components that are on it with a voltage spike

So, like, when you cut the power, you can have a voltage spike

That's why everybody has, you know, surge protectors and battery backups and stuff like that

like on your TVs, your computers and all that kind of stuff. you use a surge protector because if you know you have a lightning strike that knocks out the power

there can be a surge of voltage or a voltage spike that can fry electrical components so

if your battery is being disconnected from the engine because a bMS is just straight up shutting it

off i mean that's a big problem and you can damage parts on the engine yamaaha does not

recommend that there's no warranty if you got warranty on the engine obviously

you know people can say a lot about warranty i think that yamaha susuqi i don't know much about

honda's warranty stuff but mercury like most of those brands the warranty there's a misconception

of like if you do this thing that you're going to lose your warranty warranty

doesn't really work like that warranty is basically for you know a manufacturer defect so if

there's something wrong with your engine and it's because of the manufacturer then they will

that. It's not a, you know, warranty is not insurance. Definitely, you know, on one side of

things, because people will treat warranty like insurance, like, oh, I got warranty. So it doesn't matter what I do. I can abuse the engine. I can have all these problems. I can rough it up. And

I'll get a brand new one because it's warranty. That's not how warranty works. So if you are running a

lithium battery on the engine and you have a lower unit failure, nine times out of 10

Yamaha is not going to deny your warranty on your engine because you had a lithium battery and your lower unit failed

They're irrelated. Now, depending on the dealership and who's looking at the engine, who's looking at the boat and stuff like that

you know, you could have some stickler that's all about the rules and the lines and be like, oh, you know, this is a problem

You know, that's a whole other case. But by and large most dealerships and most Yamaha you know people and other brands like it about the consumer It about the product They make a super reliable product and they want people to go out and enjoy it You want to go down the water You want to go catch fish

You want to go run your boat. Like, and they want you to do that because that keeps you in boating

You're going to buy more engines. You're going to, you know, buy more stuff for boats. Like it keeps the industry going

So to like inherently or like, you know, what would be the word

So to like conscientiously. try and deny warranty because of, you know, some miscule thing like, you know, this

So you're running a lithium battery and you have a lower unit problem to deny a warranty claim because of that

It's, it's highly unlikely. Someone has to physically decide to do that

And that person is really the problem, not Yamaha. Yamaha is not looking at stuff like that

Now, if you've got a stator problem, a computer problem, and you're using a lithium, yeah, they're going to deny the warranty claim because they're

directly related. You know what I'm saying? You've got a lithium battery that's super cheap

that cut the power off and fried the ECU of the computer. That's not a manufacturer defect

That's not Yamaha's problem. They're not going to cover that back to the lower unit or whatever

else, you know, the case may be like whatever, a flywheel problem or a trim unit problem or

something like that. Like if your trim unit fails because of, you know, a manufacturer defect

most of the time Yamaha is just going to change it out and they're going to fix the problem

and that's that's it they're never going to go anything above that because there's no point in

doing that it there was a problem with the trim unit and we fixed it that's it they're not

going to deny your warranty but if it is a directly related with the lithium battery they will

so that's kind of my two cents on that side of things but using them as starting batteries

if you're using a high quality battery like um you know an epic battery

and Abyss battery, I don't know if stealth makes one, but like these expensive

but super high quality batteries with the BMS that's set up to be able to use

as a starting battery, you're not going to have any problems because the BMS is set up to make sure

that you don't have a problem. It's not going to disconnect from the engine. It's not going to reject the charge current

and burn up the stator or the alternator or have a problem on that side of stuff

So I think that there's definitely the value there, especially when you look at the longevity

So your lead acid batteries, you know, you've got two to five years

Sometimes you can get a little bit more based on how you use it and where you're at

But a lithium battery, you can get 10, 15, 20 years out of this battery

So if you can get 20 years out of something, opposed to getting five years

So if you spend $400 on a battery over, you know, buying five batteries over a 20 year period

you're going to spend the same amount as with you, if you bought a $1,200 battery and it lasts you 15, 20 years

So the cost and the halving to deal with it, I think the advantage is definitely on lithium there

But at the same time, you know, it depends on the battery and the quality and whether or not it's a good quality battery

if it's not a quality battery, then you could have problems. So definitely don't go with a cheap battery

I think, you know, lithium starting batteries will eventually be a huge part of the industry

Like Mercury already has all the specifications. They use lithium a lot and a lot of brands are pushing to lithium

So if the industry is moving towards this thing, then you can probably guarantee that all the other brands are going to have to move into, you know

this deal being lithium, whatever may be. It might end up being sodium or any of these other things that we talked about

Then Steve Myers wants to know, so if you put them on a 100-foot yacht, say 10,000 each

times 2, $20,000, one round trip from Seattle to Cabo and back up at a 20% fuel savings

wouldn't take long to cover the cost and start saving you large amounts of money on fuel

I would cage the props to save them from potential damage. Talking about shero props again and, you know, the fuel economy

depending on the size of the prop, you might have a $10,000, $15,000 prop

but it's going to go back to how you're using it. Like he's saying, a hundred foot yacht and going down to Cabo

if you're burning a lot of fuel and you're running long cruises and you're saving 20, 30, 40 percent

you're definitely going to have a fuel savings there. And it's all about the math. So if you spend, let's say you spend a thousand dollars, no, let's make it easy

Let's say you spend $4,000 a month on fuel. And again, that's not most of us

These are people that have cruisers and do a lot of fishing, a lot of offshore long trips

or a lot of short trips. So if you're spending $4,000 a month on fuel

and you're looking at getting a 20, 30, 40 percent, fuel efficiency, which is what people are generally seeing, let's go with 20%

If you get 20% better fuel economy, that means you're going to spend only $3,000 a month on fuel

So you've saved $1,000 that month. If it costs you $20,000 to get these propellers, it's going to take you 20 months to get your

money back and start saving money. So if you double that and you're spending, say, $8,000 a month on fuel

and at 20%, you're going to save $2,000. It's only going to take you 10 months to be able to get your money back

Or if you're spending $12,000 a month on fuel at 20%, it's only going to take you five months to get your money back

So again, it's going to be a math game, how you use your boat and cruising

Some of these companies, you know, like let's say you own a yacht and you charted

that yacht out, or you run fishing trips and you're burning that much fuel a month because

you're running 60 miles offshore and back every day or every other day or something like that

then within a few months, you might be able to get your money back out of buying the prop

Now, if you're running in shallow water, you're running in rivers and stuff like that where you

have a chance of hitting ground, then not, probably not. I mean, you're not spending that much in fuel to what you're going to have to start

spend to buy the prop and by the time you get your money back, you know, you might have already

be on to the next thing. And then also you have a risk of hitting ground

So if you roll one of the blades over, it's not really a blade, it's like a ribbon, but

if you, you know, mess that up, then, you know, that's a whole other problem

But if you're offshore, you're cruising, you're not going to have a chance of hitting ground and you're running all those trips, then 100%

The savings could be there. Totally get, I'm with you there, Steve. It's a math game

Bob White, have you looked at the cost of a new 150 or above? I can build and rebuild five two strokes for the price of one four stroke

I don't blow motors every day like you may be thinking. If I get two years out of an HPDI, I then drop two grand on it

I have barely paid over the sales tax of a new one. Do the math

New ain't cost effective for a blue-collar dude. I mean, new outboards are definitely a rich man's game

That's kind of what we're talking about here is the price of everything. and yeah, if you can rebuild five two strokes and get 10 years out of those engines

then definitely worth it. And I'm not against the two strokes either

I'm still a big fan of an HPDI. I would still run an Opti max. Like, you know, there's nothing wrong with the two stroke

I'm off for you there. It's an interesting idea. There's a lot of people out there at the same time that don't buy engines, don't rebuild them

aren't mechanically inclined. They just want to go fishing. So, you know, for those guys

it might not be the same type of a situation where they have the ability to rebuild them

and they, you know, they might have the money to go by it. So, I mean, yeah, you know, I'm with you though

I get what you're saying. I a doofus I have a question just purchased a 2024 Suzuki 175 Tides really affect my ramp depth Sometimes have to really tilt the motor up so keel isn scraping bottom

Is it bad for the motor to run it at an angle like that for 10 to 15 minutes

I'm guessing you're saying that keeping your skag, not the keel. So the keel is, you know, use your boat

The very bottom, you know, where the two sides of the whole meat, that's the keel

I think you're talking about the skeg of the engine and having to trim it up. So depending on the angle of the engine and the water is going to be the problem here

So with an outboard, you're talking about the exhaust and you're running cooling water

There's water going into the exhaust and then pushing it out. So most exhausts come to the top and then they come over and the exhaust comes out of the cylinders and it goes up and then down and out

So if you trim the engine, like let's say, you know, this is the water and this is your engine

And you trim it up like this. As long as that exhaust is above and, you know, the water line and it's not, you know

tilted to an angle. So if you tilt the engine like this, water is going to just roll back into the engine and lock up your engine because it's going to be able to do that

By and large, with the engine tilted, you know, there is to a point I'm trying to think of the exhaust system

on that Suzuki and how far. I mean, you probably can tilt it to like this

and not have a problem because the water is just going to be in the exhaust

and gravity is going to do its job. It's going to be pushing it down. You've also got the air that is coming out

The exhaust is being pushed out of the engine and it's going to push all the water down

Water is not going to have a chance to get back up into the powerhead

and mess things up. That's kind of what the problem with tilting the engine up

As long as there's no chance of water getting into the engine through the exhaust, then it doesn't matter

As long as you've got cooling water, because at a certain point you're going to trim the engine up out of the water

and you're not going to be sucking in cooling water. So I'd be looking at that before you're able to trim the engine up so far

to where you're going to get water that goes back into the engine

and locks your engine up. Those are going to be the kind of the two things that I'm thinking about

and that what you're going to want to be concerned about. I don't think you're going to have a problem

as long as you know you trim it up to where you're still getting cooling water in there but you know

I get what you're saying with the steep ramp and you you know the end you've got to bring your boat up

on the trailer trailers like this and you know you're as you come up you don't want to submerge your

engine at the same time so steep ramps can have their downfalls but as long as you've still got

cooling water the lower units still in the water I think you're going to be all right you can run

it like that, you know, for as long as you want because you're cooling the engine and it's not

tilted all the way up to where water can get through the exhaust back into the engine

Most engines have been designed to where that's no longer an issue

There were older engines like, you know, the first generation, Verado, stuff like that

that had the exhaust so low that that was a potential problem

But by and large, most of them, the exhaust comes up to the top and then back down and all

the water is being dumped out. and there isn't really a way for that to happen

Again, be very cautious. You might even take the cowling off of the engine

look at the exhaust and tilt it up to where you're, you know, trying to tilt it up

and see if that's going to be a problem. But I think by the time that becomes a problem

that you're going to have the lower unit out of the, out of the water and not be even sucking cooling water

So don't go that far with it. If you have to go that far with it

you know, just shut the engine off and get the strap onto the boat to where you can, you know

just crank the boat up onto the trailer. Get guideposts on your trailer

So that way the guideposts, as long as you get the bow in between the guideposts

you can, you know, hand the strap over and hook it from the bow and be able to crank it up

onto the trailer and not worry about, you know, just shut the engine off and not worry about that

So that's kind of the way I would do it, especially if you're

ramp is super steep. The trailer's going to be super submerged, so you should be able to get the bow up real close

to the front and then just kind of work with somebody as you pull it out to get it, you know

to sit right on the trailer. Ray, Ray Zar, you mentioned about spraying the engine with CRC

I prefer WD40, as I've been told CRC over time can make the cable insulation mushy

I have not heard that about CRC. I don't, I don't know

could. I mean, you start spraying chemicals on stuff. There definitely could be an effect on

rubber components and stuff like that. Even though I have not seen that, I can't say that that

couldn't possibly happening. I mean, I guess maybe you need 20 years of CRCs to get, you know

evidence of that. But same thing with WD40. I'm not against the WD40. I have been told by someone

else that WD 40 because it is a petroleum product that it will dry out and crack the insulation

that's on the wires like the engine harness and stuff like that. Again, I haven't personally

seen this happen even though it is potential. So, you know, weighing the options there

We use CRC, so I'm not going to say not to use CRC. WD40 is still a great product as well

I do see the correlation between the petroleum, the drying out, and the cracking of the insulation

the rubber insulation on the wiring harness. So if you want to be 100% with it

just go by Yama Shield. Yama Shield is, you know, outstanding. And it's like 10, 12 bucks for a bottle

And that will give you all the corrosion protection that you need. So maybe even just switching over from WD and CRC to Yama Shield

that might be the best. 100% way to not have an issue

So let's do one more before we shut it down for the day. Scott Michael said I was just looking at these for my 4-25s

The cost is 24,000. And I don't know if I can justify the cost

Right now I go four-tenths of a mile per gallon at 4,000 RPM

and hold 614 gallons that I fill up one to two times a month

Talking about the Shero props again. So yeah, we can end it on this one

again, you know, it's a math thing. I did a little bit of an equation here just so we can do it

I can't get the equation right off the top of my head. But if you have 614 gallons twice a month, that's 1,228 gallons

Usually I think people like, you know, you get 20 to 30% on the fuel savings of it

So at 1228, if you're going to be spending somewhere around $9 to $1,000 per month on the fuel

so it's going to take you like two to two and a half years to get your money back

So is that savings enough, you know, to unload $24,000 to, you know, over two years

Generally, my guess is if you're running four, four-twenty-fives and you got 614 gallons spending

thousand bucks on a fill-up, you could probably find a better way to take $24,000

So, like, I'll put it like this. If you take $24,000 and you invest it into something else

my guess is you'll probably be able to double your money in two to two and a half years

opposed to spending $24,000 on propellers and then waiting two and a half years to try and get the fuel savings out of those propellers

That's just kind of my thought on that based on, you know, if you if you're running for 425s

then my guess is you've got opportunities to use that money elsewhere, double it

you know, then there's no point buying the propellers because you can make your money elsewhere

and not worry about the fuel savings. If you want to talk about something, drop in the comments below

emails at ASBAB at Borgantbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb.com. Check out our boaters program. Again, we do a weekly live stream

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